Old Family Red Nose

"Old strains are a particularly fascinating part of tradition, and the Old Family Red Nose is one of the better-known old strains. The appearance of the red-nosed dogs always attracts attention, but it takes a little getting used to for some people to consider them truly beautiful. However no one denies that they radiate "class."

Characteristically, a dog of the red-nosed strain has a copper-red nose, red lips, red toe nails, and red or amber eyes. Some think the strain was bred for looks. Others consider any dog that just happens to have a red nose to be pure Old Family Red Nose. It is hoped that the following will dispel such notions. About the middle of the last century, there was a family of pit dogs in Ireland bred and fought chiefly in the counties of Cork and Kerry that were known as the "Old Family." In those days, pedigrees were privately kept and jealously guarded. Purity of the strains was emphasized to the extent that breeders hardly recognized another strain as being the same breed. For that reason all the strains were closely inbred. And whenever you have a closed genetic pool of that type, you are likely to have a slide toward the recessive traits, because the dominants, once discarded, are never recaptured. Since red is recessive to all colors but white, the "Old Family" eventually became the "Old Family Reds." When the dogs began coming to America, many were already beginning to show the red nose.

The "Old Family" dogs found their way to America mainly via immigrants. For example, Jim Corcoran came to this country to fight the World Heavyweight champion John L. Sullivan, and stayed to become a Boston policeman. He sent for dogs from his parents back in Ireland, and his importations and expertise as a great breeder have earned him a prominent place in American Pit Bull Terrier history. Many other Irish immigrants also sent back to their families to request for dogs, and the "Old Family" and related strains became firmly established in the United States.
At this point, there are several factors that are somewhat confusing to a student of the breed. For one thing, the term "Family dogs" was used in two ways: It could mean a strain of dogs that was a family unto itself that was kept by a number of unrelated people in Ireland, or it could refer to a strain of dogs that was kept and preserved through the years by a family group. However, the old Family Reds seem to be of the first category. Another point that arises is that with all these importations from Ireland (and there were importations from other countries, too-including Spain), where do we get off calling our breed the American Pit Bull Terrier! Well ... That's a point! The breed does not really belong to any one country or even any one era! However, I don't believe many people are in favor of changing the name of the breed even though it is not strictly an American breed. For that matter, , it is not really a Bull Terrier either! But the name American Pit Bull Terrier has become part of that tradition we were talking about, and I think most of us prefer to keep it as a formal name for the breed.

Back to the Old Family Reds. The first big splash made by the red noses was back around 1900 when the great breeder William J. Lightner, utilizing Old Family Red bloodlines, came up with some red-nosed dogs that really made a name for themselves. Now Lightner once told me that he did not breed for that red-nosed coloration. In fact, he did not even like it and he only put up with it because the individual dogs were of such high quality. Eventually, Lightner gave up on the red-nosed strain when he moved from Louisiana to Colorado, where he came up with a new strain that consisted of small dark-colored dogs with black noses. He had given up on the other strain because they were running too big for his taste and because he didn't like the red noses.

At this point in our story, we come upon a comical, but highly-respected, figure in the personage of Dan McCoy. I have heard old-time dog men from all over the country talk about this man. Apparently, he was an itinerant fry cook and not much of a success in life judged by normal standards, but he didn't care about that. But what he did care about were Pit Bull Dogs, and he had a wealth of knowledge about the breed. His uncanny ability to make breedings that "clicked" made him a respected breeding consultant and a most welcome guest at any dog man's house--even if he had just dropped off a freight train!
Always with his ear to the ground regarding anything that involved APBT's, McCoy got wind of the fact that an old Frenchman in Louisiana by the name of Bourgeous had preserved the old Lightner red-nosed strain. So he and Bob Hemphill went to that area, and with the aid of Gaboon Trahan of Lafayette, they secured what was left of the dogs. McCoy took his share to the Panhandle of Texas and placed them with his associates L.C. Owens, Arthur Harvey, and Buck Moon. He then played a principal role in directing the breedings that were made by these fanciers. And from this enclave came such celebrated dogs as Harvey's "Red Devil" and Owens (Ferguson) "Centipede." Hemphill eventually kept only dogs of the red-nosed strain. According to Hemphill, it was McCoy that first starting using the term "Old Family Red Nose" for the strain.

Another breeder who was almost synonymous with the red-nosed strain was Bob Wallace. However, Bob's basic bloodlines was not pure Old Family Red Nose. But in the late 40's, he was looking for the red-nosed strain in order to make an "outcross.." (Bob was a scrupulously careful breeder who planned his breedings years in advance.) Unfortunately, he found that the strain was nearly gone, most of it having been ruined by careless breedings. He managed to obtain seven pure red-noses of high quality whose pedigrees he could authenticate. The strain was subsequently saved for posterity and in the 1950's became the fashionable strain in Pit Bull circles. In fact, it was Bob Wallace who wrote an article in 1953 called "There is no magic in Red Noses" in which he tried to put a damper on the overly enthusiastic claims being made by some of the admirers of the strain. No more fervent admirer of the Old Family Reds ever lived than Wallace, but he obviously felt that the strain could stand on its own merits.
Many strain have been crossed with the Old Family Reds at some time in their existence. Consequently, nearly any strain will occasionally throw a red-nosed pup. To many fanciers, these red-nosed individuals are Old Family Red Noses, even though the great preponderance of their blood is that of other strains. Sometimes such individuals will fail to measure up and thereby reflect undeserved discredit on the red-nosed strain. However, as Wallace said, the red noses should not be considered invincible either. They produce their share of bad ones as well as good ones--just as all strains do.

As a strain, the Old Family Red Nose has several things going for it. First, it is renowned for its gameness. Second, some of the most reputable breeders in all Pit Bull History have contributed to the preservation and development of the strain. People like Lightner, McClintock, Menefee and Wallace, just to mention a few. Finally, as McNolty said in his 30-30 Journal (1967) "Regardless of one's historical perspective, these old amber-eyed, red-nosed, red-toe-nailed, red-coated dogs represent some of the most significant pit bull history and tradition that stands on four legs today."

This is taken from the writings of an APBT author/student.

The APBT ancestry can be traced back to the 1880s, 'Lloyds Pilot' being one example, this is a full 50 years prior to the name Staffordshire bull terrier being recognised by the KC.

If we accept that, 'Pit Dogs' were in almost every part of the planet inhabited by those of either English, Irish, possilby Spanish decent. How did the cementing of terrier blooded bulldogs come about? It is known that first crosses consistantly carry with within them, 'Hybrid Vigour' it is also recognised as the first cross is diluted the offspring return to the average and often below what would be expected of the average, 'First crosses are practiced often within Lurchers, ie: GreyhoundxSaluki, if a bitch pup is breed on invariably it is taken back to either a pure Greyhound or pure Saluki.

If there existed a family/breed of terrier which was so endowed with gameness/courage, vigour, stamina, not to mention wrestling abilty also highly desired in the pit dog. I am certain that terriers of that calibre, 'Seen fit to impregnate the know world of, 'The Fighting Bulldog' would have at least ONCE been deserving of a mention by some scribe of the times, as opposed to the assumption by many that such a cross did take place, for the betterment/improvement of the fighting Bullldog.
Many/most who pitted dogs, 'Are known!!' to refer to them as merely Bulldogs nothing more nothing less.



very interesting

As far back as one cares to go in recorded history, one will find
reference in both word and art of molossoid dogs that were used for
fighting, hunting, and war. There were different "types" of molossi,
spread about the world, used for similar functions and these dogs
evolved into our modern day mastiff and bulldog breeds. It is unknown if these types sprang up individually, or from one main ancestor. Some believe that this type of dog originally came from an area close to China.
British Chief Caractacus was defeated by Emperor Claudius of the
Roman Empire in 50 AD. The Romans were so impressed by the fierce fighting dogs they met when they landed in Britain that they began importing the dogs back to Rome for use in the great arena, alongside the other dogs they already possessed for such uses. It seems reasonable to assume that the British dogs were at some points crossed into the Roman dogs. Ancestors of these dogs were exported to all parts of the continent, including France and to Spain where they became renowned fighting dogs. Later some of these dogs found their way back to Britain. A variety of breeds of mastiff/bulldog type were scattered about, and most likely contributed to the creation of the bulldog that was to be one of the main ingredients used in the development of the Pit Bull.

Circaa 1406 Edmond de Langley, Duke of York, wrote a treatise entitled "The Mayster of the Game and of Hawks" in which he described the "Alaunt" or "Allen" dog (a descendant of the ancient molossoid dogs), which was the popular baiting dog of the time because of its tenaciousness and strength. In a 1585 painting, dogs described as Alaunts that look very similar to modern day Pit Bulls, only of a larger size, are shown hunting wild hogs.

The name "bulldog" was first mentioned in print in 1631. Later, dogs
described as bulldogs were used to bait bull and bear. These bulldogs
are most assuredly the descendants of the Alaunt. A letter written in
Spain in 1632 by an Englishman named Prestwich Eaton to his friend
George Wellingham who was in London, asked for a "good mastiff dog and two bulldogs." This gives indication that a split had occurred and the bulldog had already formed into a distinct type by this time.

By viewing art, we can see two distinct types of bulldog-like dogs. Some are more low-slung, with undershot jaws, heavier-boned, and broader. It is to be assumed that this is the prototype from which the modern-day AKC Bulldog was drawn upon, having been created by the crossing of the Alaunt with a Chinese brachycephalic breed Pai Dog.
However, also to be noted are bulldogs in art that are strikingly similar to modern day Pit Bulls, with less-exaggerated features, normal bites, and longer legs. Might these be the main ancestors of the current day Pit Bull? It would seem likely. It must be noted that "bulldogs" at this time were not dogs of any particular strain or breed, but rather a type of dog with certain traits that was used for certain things. Dogs which possessed more Pit Bull-like features went on to become the Pit Bull breed, while the more "bulldoggy" bulldogs were used in creation of the brachycephalic breeds (Bulldogs, French Bulldogs, etc).

Bulldogs were used for all manner of work, including baiting, fighting,
stock work, hunting, and farm dog, as well as companion animal. They were an agreeable dog, capable of extreme ferociousness towards other animals but unwavering loyalty and gentleness towards humans.
They were a breed which was required to demonstrate a certain level of animal-directed aggression, but were routinely used in pairs to bait
animals and hunt, so overt aggression towards others of their same
species was not an extreme trait.
In 1835, a law was set in motion in England that would make the sport of baiting illegal, and over the next few years, the activity eventually died down upon enforcement of the law. The people turned to another blood sport--that of dog fighting--and of course turned to the bulldog as the likely choice for use in the fights. Selective breeding produced a bulldog with a heightened tendency to exhibit dog-directed aggression, a smaller size, and greater agility for performance in a pit that was decidedly smaller than the large areas that baits were typically held in. Hardy, scrappy sporting terriers were crossed into some of the fighting bulldogs to further enhance these traits. The crosses were called bull-and-terriers, half-and-halfs, and pit terriers.

It is considered general knowledge that these crosses were the first Pit Bulls, however there is some speculation as to whether or not the history of these crosses is that of our Pit Bulls, or rather a history "borrowed" from the Bull Terrier, which is a very well documented bulldog/terrier fighting dog cross. Some students of Pit Bull history believe that the Pit Bull is practically a living replica of the old-time bulldog, and that during this time the bulldog was refined as a fighting dog ‘as is’, without any crossbreeding. The question presented is this: why would the devotees of the already extremely game bulldog dilute the blood of the perfect fighting dog with non-game terriers? The typical argument is that the terrier blood
increased agility and decreased size. However, the jobs the bulldog was typically required to perform would have demanded agility and the ability to avoid the antics of an enraged bull. As already pointed out, bulldogs came in a variety of sizes and shapes, so breeding down the size to be more compatible with the pit would not have been a difficult task, even without looking outside the gene pool. Examining works of art from all points in history, one will discover dogs that look remarkably similar to today's Pit Bull. Maybe the breed has essentially always existed as it appears in today’s world, a preserved specimen of the original bulldog.

As tempting as it may be to sucked in by the allure of such a notion, the odds of the APBT being the original, terrier-free bulldog is not likely. It is the opinion of this author that, while the APBT is probably made up mostly of old bulldog blood, at least some terrier blood *was* indeed introduced.
Please consider the fact that quite a bit of cross-breeding went on among the game dog fanciers of the time who were not so much interested in purebred dogs as they were in dogs with fighting ability, and would therefore breed accordingly to dogs that were game, regardless of pedigree.

The breed eventually to be known as the American Pit Bull Terrier was
selectively bred specifically with the idea of it becoming the ultimate
canine gladiator. But by virtue of the fact that so much of the breed was made up of versatile bulldog blood, the breed also proved adept at a number of non-fighting activities, including those which the bulldog had been used for. Also, the traits (specifically gameness) bred for in pit dogs were surprisingly relevant in other arenas. Gameness is defined as the willingness to see a task through to its end, even under penalty of serious injury or death. Gameness was the trait most cherished in a fighting dog for obvious reasons, however this same trait proved useful in other areas--a dog who had the tenacity to hold a wild bull or boar, steadfastness to protect his master's home and property, and extreme tolerance for pain which made for a very stable dog less likely to bite out of fear or pain was terribly useful in rural old England, and later on in America. So while a core group of fanciers focused on the fighting uses of the breed, and bred with the pit in mind, others kept dogs for a variety of tasks. And indeed, some family/working dogs were used in the pit and
some pit dogs were also family/working dogs. There was never a clear line drawn between ‘fighting dogs’, and ‘non-fighting dogs’ in those early years of the breed.
Pit Bulls were imported to America shortly before the Civil War, and used in much the same manner as they were back in England. But in the USA the breed solidified and was named--the American Pit Bull Terrier. Strains of the fighting dog that remained in England later came to be known as Staffordshire Bull Terriers. There is speculation as to how closely related the Stafford and Pit Bull are as a breed, but the most convincing case is made up of claims that they are a similar breed, developed during the same time, made up of similar but separate strains of bulldog and terrier blood. Cousins, but not brothers. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier became recognized as a breed by the English dog registry, the Kennel Club, in 1935".

Even so, debate occurs when trying to establish something as simple as whether or not the Pit Bull is the original bulldog, or whether it is, as popular short-histories insist, a 50/50 cross between the brachycephalic bulldog of England (the ancestor of the modern day AKC Bulldog) and now-extinct hunting terriers.

Interesting.With the abolishing of baiting there was a decline in the bulldogs popularity and several types of cross breds started to appear.By the mid eighteen hundreds the pug was introduced into somelines bringing size down drastically and shortening the muzzle.Also terrier blood was introduced to improve the bulldogs agility.

The larger spanish bulldogs weighting between 9o and 120 pounds were being imported by breeders who thought that the breed had lost some of its power and substance.
One breeder Mr Adcock introduced from spain a dog named Toro,weighing in at 90 pounds.As a stud dog he proved a dissapiontment,his progeny lacked that of the sire.

His head measurements are as follows.
Head 22 inchs
chop close upto the eye 14 inches
length of face from corner of eye to tip of nose 2 and a half inches
from corner of eye to angle of mouth 5inches
between eyes two and three quarter inches
from ear to ears across forehead five and a half inches.

from top of nose to under jaw 3 inches
projection of lower incisors beyond those in the upper jaw when the mouth is closed 1 inch
between canines in upper jaw 2 and a quarter inches.
lower jaw about 2 inches (being broken)
round neck 19 inches
length of neck 5 inches
round ribs 31 inches
across chest 13 inches
between forelegs 9 inches
length of neck and body from apex of skull to root of tail 30 inches
round forearm 8 and a half inches
round loins twenty one inches
height at shoulder 22 inches
from point of elbow to ground eleven inches

If you read the philo kuon standard(canis pugnax)it mentions in there what a valuable dog the bulldog was to cross with terriers,hounds,pointers and greyhounds,to give them courage and endurance.

Il a l'air interessant ce texte, mais il est long a comprendre en Anglais ... :lol: :lol: